Please reply if you are interested in attending a programming course in a laboratory format.
We're envisioning creating a Presentation Manager control in four hours or so (with breaks). Class members would decide on the type of control to be created, and an experienced developer would guide the class in creating it.
Programming language would probably be C or C++ and use the OS/2 Developer's Toolkit.
Let me know if this kind of course would be interesting.
I suppose that we should also mention that this doesn't necessarily have to coincide with the Warpstock annual event, if another timeframe would be better suited to the majority of potential attendees. In fact, if people might be interested in an extended (week long) workshop, we're interested in hearing about that, as well. Location, instructor, format, etc. are all open for discussion at this point, so please give this some thought and post your ideas.
Thanks!
I'm very interested and would come to any site, although I'd prefer something on the West Coast, Desert Southwest, a Northern Atlantic city (NYC, Boston, Baltimore), or the Midwest (around Missouri). What's that? Too much information?
I'll come alone and single-minded. I would be interested in a longer session such as three days or a week more than a one day class. Either C or C++ would be worthwhile. The creation of a PM control would be nice as a culmination of the class.
Just my two Euro...
Hello all,
Recently there was a discussion on the OpenOffice for eCS group regarding how we can get more developers. I suggested that we put together a one week course in programming in C++. Neil and Lewis suggested that we do it under Warpstock and suggested moving the discussion here, so here is my idea.
I wrote a few primitive C programs about 20 years ago that actually did what I wanted them to do, and I have tried on several occasions recently to renew my familiarity with C by following along with online C++ courses, but I never seem to make it over the "I have no idea what to do" hump. It seems that in order to be successful, I need to commit to blocking everything else out and immersing myself in studying C++ for a long enough period to get me over the hump. As a result, I propose that we offer a 5 day entry level C++ course. Below are some ideas. They are just ideas. Obviously, the schedule is flexible.
Advance Information
Let us know what the pre-requisites are, such as: if we need separate partitions for each compiler, etc. At one point, we needed Netscape to install VAC++ is that still necessary, or is there a work-around?
Monday
Discuss relative merits of Open Watcom, VAC++ and GCC. For example, which ones are better for what uses, etc.
Install those that we will use. I would actually like to see us create at least one C++ program in each compiler over the course of the week.
Tuesday
Create a simple program that will copy the songs in a PM123 playlist onto a CD for use in a car.
As these programs are created, the students would be familiarized with such things as planning the program logic and how to research available commands/structures.
Wednesday
Create a flash card simulator program that will allow the user to display a question, decide what the correct answer is, view the answer and tell the program if the user got the answer correct. If the answer is correct the question would not be asked again. If the answer is incorrect, the question would be shuffled into the stack for another pass.
Thursday
This is probably too much to undertake, but I use a ThinkPad T21 and I *love* the Trackpoint device, but when I use the center button to emulate a mouse wheel, if other things are going on, it stores up the move commands and executes every one of them, even though I have long ago let up on the Trackpointer. I would like to modify the mouse wheel emulator so it will purge the buffer of any remaining move commands as soon as I let up on the Trackpointer.
Friday
Set up Paul Smedley's porting environment and actually do a little porting.
Loose ends.
Well, there you go. I really hope we can get something going, because I believe this will empower those of us who would like to, to help.
I would favor sometime in the Spring, such as March or April, but any time is fine. I would be willing to do the leg work if the group wanted to do it in the DFW (Dallas - Fort Worth) area.
Y'all have a great day!
Stu Updke
Bedford, Texas
Hello Neil and Lewis,
I was just wondering if anything has happened WRT the course. I can see that nothing has been posted here and I wonder if it would be beneficial to post my message on the eCS group to find out if any others are interested? Also, I am wondering if your silence on the issue is indicative of you feeling that my suggestion is not on target?
I hope you all have a great day!
Stu
I personally would take the C++ course. I do write programs here in Borland C++ for our Windows machines. and have for over 15 years. I started with assember in 1966, then went to Basic, Visual Basic, and then C++. At high school we used a language from the University of Toronto and Holt Software called TURING , yes named after Alan Turing, to teach programming. See:http://compsci.ca/blog/download-turing-411/
Do we have stats from previous Warpstocks of the numbers that attended similar 'programming' courses? I would also like to learn to 'program' scripts in OpenOffice, and would be willing to setup/teach OpenOffice {Writer,Spreadsheet, Database(with help?), and Impress (Julien?). That could end up being a multi-dayer depending on the complexity decided.
An then there still is my Mesa2 stuff. EDGAR.
Hi, Edgar...
I would be interested in a programming course.
Advance Information
Let us know what the pre-requisites are, such as: if we need separate partitions for each compiler, etc. At one point, we needed Netscape to install VAC++ is that still necessary, or is there a work-around?
Monday
Discuss relative merits of Open Watcom, VAC++ and GCC. For example, which ones are better for what uses, etc.
Install those that we will use. I would actually like to see us create at least one C++ program in each compiler over the course of the week.
Stuart,
Each day, you ask for material that would fit nicely into ten days. Some teacher could run through it in one day, but I have my doubts that any students would really absorb much of the information.
Monday: Andy covered the compiler issue pretty well.
Tuesday: Selecting the right tool for the job would be a pretty good sub-topic. You mentioned messing with music files, which is a scripting task, suite for REXX or perl.
Wednesday: This is pretty much OK.
Thursday: That does sound like too much for a day, or even a week. Could be done. Maybe just a survey of the problem, so you would have an idea what you are asking.
Friday: Sounds good. We would not have time to actually port anything, but it's a nice topic. I'd love to see GNU hello world presented, which is an example of how to port the well-known 1 line C program to a new platform.
Edgar:
yes, I have the stats. No one has ever run a programming course at Warpstock.
VAC365 required Netscape IIRC but there is a way to run the installer without it (don't know all the details). VAC308 does not require Netscape as I recall. It has been a long time since I installed either (I've just copied the installed files to each new machine). That said, these are no longer directly available (ebay or if someone happens to have copies). e(X)WP uses 3.08 and Odin uses 3.08 (but can be built with 3.65). The Flash plugin is being developed with 3.65. These are the only current projects I know that use VAC.
Unless you already have a copy (or desire to work on Odin or XWP) then I'd primarily recommend Watcom or GCC. And in the context of the course I don't know that I would focus on VAC at all (due to the limited availability).
Andy[/p][/QUOTE]
I agree that we should forgo discussion of VAC due to its lack of general use.
Stu
Stuart,
Each day, you ask for material that would fit nicely into ten days. Some teacher could run through it in one day, but I have my doubts that any students would really absorb much of the information.
Monday: Andy covered the compiler issue pretty well.
Tuesday: Selecting the right tool for the job would be a pretty good sub-topic. You mentioned messing with music files, which is a scripting task, suite for REXX or perl.
Wednesday: This is pretty much OK.
Thursday: That does sound like too much for a day, or even a week. Could be done. Maybe just a survey of the problem, so you would have an idea what you are asking.
Friday: Sounds good. We would not have time to actually port anything, but it's a nice topic. I'd love to see GNU hello world presented, which is an example of how to port the well-known 1 line C program to a new platform.
WRT porting & building:
What I think would be of tremendous value is a discussion of differencing files, patch, and how to work around platform limitations (I ran into a situation a few days ago where the latest version of the app I was trying to port supported IPv6, with no obvious way of disabling it in the conf - at least no -disableIPv6 option). I ran into some similar issues (though not IPv6) when working on OpenVPN. Paul immediately recognized the issue and said, "Oh, you need to use these headers, here, to stub around that." How would I have known?
Reading the log from make -d would also be extremely helpful for not only porting, but also building in general. I find that for some reason, it's easier for me to spot makefile issues when reading the log under Linux than under OS/2, probably because the errors are more...um...expected.
Just some random thoughts about this.
PS - Stu, there's a checkbox in the options below your post to notify of replies. My user prefs enable this by default. If yours don't you might want to check it each time.
WRT porting & building:
What I think would be of tremendous value is a discussion of differencing files, patch, and how to work around platform limitations (I ran into a situation a few days ago where the latest version of the app I was trying to port supported IPv6, with no obvious way of disabling it in the conf - at least no -disableIPv6 option). I ran into some similar issues (though not IPv6) when working on OpenVPN. Paul immediately recognized the issue and said, "Oh, you need to use these headers, here, to stub around that." How would I have known?
Reading the log from make -d would also be extremely helpful for not only porting, but also building in general. I find that for some reason, it's easier for me to spot makefile issues when reading the log under Linux than under OS/2, probably because the errors are more...um...expected.
Just some random thoughts about this.
PS - Stu, there's a checkbox in the options below your post to notify of replies. My user prefs enable this by default. If yours don't you might want to check it each time.
So far, we have some three people already who have posted that they'd be interested in taking a programming course.
This is still looking like a survey course to me -- we don't go into depth, but just show how to set up the tools, and how to compile an example program, and a review of the code of the sample program to see what it does.
Also, I see interest in learning C or C++ on the OS/2 platform, which in a one day format would look like setting up the compiler, compiling the sample programs from a current textbook and showing how the debugger works. Students would then be prepared to take a real C++ course at their local community college, but to do it in OS/2 (or eCS).
Finally, I see interest in a porting course. That would be setting up the porting tools, and doing a demonstration port, looking at how to overcome typical porting problems.
If you are reading this, please comment if you'd be interested in taking such a course, or if there is something else you'd like to see in a Warpstock course.
I plan to invite some of the top active OS/2 programmers. Course fees will be used for instructor travel, food and lodging.
So far, we have some three people already who have posted that they'd be interested in taking a programming course.
This is still looking like a survey course to me -- we don't go into depth, but just show how to set up the tools, and how to compile an example program, and a review of the code of the sample program to see what it does.
Also, I see interest in learning C or C++ on the OS/2 platform, which in a one day format would look like setting up the compiler, compiling the sample programs from a current textbook and showing how the debugger works. Students would then be prepared to take a real C++ course at their local community college, but to do it in OS/2 (or eCS).
Finally, I see interest in a porting course. That would be setting up the porting tools, and doing a demonstration port, looking at how to overcome typical porting problems.
If you are reading this, please comment if you'd be interested in taking such a course, or if there is something else you'd like to see in a Warpstock course.
I plan to invite some of the top active OS/2 programmers. Course fees will be used for instructor travel, food and lodging.
We should probably put something out on OS/2 World, etc. concerning a request for those would-be programmers who might be interested in such a course. As it is, we're simply too spread out for word of mouth or even email chains to be of much use.
Just thinking out loud....
We should probably put something out on OS/2 World, etc. concerning a request for those would-be programmers who might be interested in such a course. As it is, we're simply too spread out for word of mouth or even email chains to be of much use.
Just thinking out loud....
I simply do not understand your original plan, for all of the reasons listed in this thread.
I'm hoping you will restate your plan more clearly. It's a one week course, and if it had the items you listed, it would be a survey course. Can you select material that could be covered in one week?
I simply do not understand your original plan, for all of the reasons listed in this thread.
I'm hoping you will restate your plan more clearly. It's a one week course, and if it had the items you listed, it would be a survey course. Can you select material that could be covered in one week?
It looks like Stu lost his way back here.
The programming course is something for which a lot of people have expressed interest. However, every single person wanted a different course. This makes it pretty difficult to recruit a presenter.
Here's another proposal.
We can get the best programmers available to Warpstock, and schedule some time for a programming workshop. Workshop participants will bring a programming problem, and the presenters will attempt to show how to solve each of the problems. There will be a lot of individual work, and the course will be hands-on. Participants should leave with a working solution, or at least some progress toward a working solution.
Please post a reply if you would like to take this workshop.
It looks like Stu lost his way back here.
The programming course is something for which a lot of people have expressed interest. However, every single person wanted a different course. This makes it pretty difficult to recruit a presenter.
Here's another proposal.
We can get the best programmers available to Warpstock, and schedule some time for a programming workshop. Workshop participants will bring a programming problem, and the presenters will attempt to show how to solve each of the problems. There will be a lot of individual work, and the course will be hands-on. Participants should leave with a working solution, or at least some progress toward a working solution.
Please post a reply if you would like to take this workshop.
I just discovered this survey.
Count me in for a programming course in C. (Programming vs porting.) I think C++ would add too much complexity for a course only a week long. I think the focus should be on getting a programming environment set up.
There was a presentation at Warpstock 2009 on how many different hills one had to climb just to get to "Hello, World". When one is just starting one can be stopped by the silliest of problems. Right now, I'm trying to learn Subversion and just printing the documentation has me stopped because it is not in .txt format. One needs something called .nroff.
It is also possible that much of the instruction could simply be posted here and those expecting to attend the class would be up to that level before attending.
I just discovered this survey.
Count me in for a programming course in C. (Programming vs porting.) I think C++ would add too much complexity for a course only a week long. I think the focus should be on getting a programming environment set up.
There was a presentation at Warpstock 2009 on how many different hills one had to climb just to get to "Hello, World". When one is just starting one can be stopped by the silliest of problems. Right now, I'm trying to learn Subversion and just printing the documentation has me stopped because it is not in .txt format. One needs something called .nroff.
It is also possible that much of the instruction could simply be posted here and those expecting to attend the class would be up to that level before attending.
Thanks, Gordon, for your interest in a programming course. While Stu and I work out the details, Let me point out that at Warpstock, we will have a programmers workshop. I will assemble the best programmers I can get, and participants will be able to bring in their programming problems and we will attempt to work them out.
This approach will be much more focused than a programming course that would be oriented toward making a general foundation for programming.
Let me comment that normally there is no need for subversion in order to learn how to program. Rather, I would suggest installing one of the C compilers, IBM Visual Age, OpenWatcom or GCC, and working through a few examples.
Honestly, "Hello, World!" is very useful in getting started. If you've got "Hello, World!" to work, then you are ready for the basic C course.
Neil,
Thank you for your answer.
Yes, I know that knowing Subversion is not essential for programming. I just mentioned my difficulty with its documentation to show you the silly things that can trip up a newbie. I am getting around the lack of nroff by going to the subversion website and reading the docs there. I want subversion because I'm tired of having my REXX projects cramped or even stopped because I can't keep track of all the versions of the program I am writing.
Maybe an OS/2 version of nroff would be a good project for a C course.
Gord
Well, setting up subversion isn't something I've done yet, but like you, I feel the need to do it. It's not really programming, but rather a system administration task, but it's one that many programmers may face. Still, when we talk about a programming course, it's best not to sidetrack too much into other topics.
I'm thinking about nroff. Sure there is subversion documentation, and nroff could be used to access it. I never considered doing it that way. The online docs at the website are quite good, and there is also a book that contains exactly the same material. Now I'm sure nroff is already ported to OS/2 -- it's just a matter of finding it. Well, maybe there is more. nroff is just a simple tool. The task is to read Unix man pages, and probably a lot of the rest of the Unix environment would be needed. That's quite a lot, and while that is absolutely essential for learning to port applications from Unix, and to some degree even to run ported programs, it is another sidetrack.
The good of the course is simply to learn about writing programs on the OS/2 platform. That is two main topics, one being learning to write programs, and the other is learning how to access the unique features of the OS/2 platform.
[OT]
Cawf is a suitable replacement for nroff (http://pkgsrc.se/textproc/cawf ). There is a current port of Cawf available from Hobbes: http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/h-search.php?key=cawf410&pushbutton=Search .
[somewhat closer to topic]
From a porting standpoint, building something basic - such as nroff - would be a good exercise. I am constantly trying to port things which are too complex to get done in a reasonable amount of time. I then run into issues, and get frustrated with the whole thing.
Warpstock Corporation - Forum
http://www.warpstock.org/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=489